Facing the Facade with Caleb Henry: An Interview

In order to get some fresh voices on here, I am going to start a series of interviews. There is not clear criteria for the people I choose, other than that they are interesting to me and perhaps have some sort of virtual presence. I start with Caleb Henry, who is a college friend of mine, a seminarian, a philosopher, a youth pastor, and blogger at Facing the Facade. I hope you find his thoughts to be as insightful as I did.

Chris: Caleb you are one of the most philosophical people I know, but you're also a youth pastor. How do those two mesh?


Caleb: I wish they would mesh more often. Sometimes I feel like they are at complete odds with one another, and there are even times where I feel like my ministry is at a disadvantage because of my philosophical impulses (i.e. analyzing things, being skeptical of claims, etc.). What I have found is that though these two are often at odds with one another they actually make me a better person in ministry. Of course, if I get too philosophical with people, I will lose them—and this is not good, especially when studying the Bible, because people can feel inferior and might be discouraged from studying it more. Where it helps me is that it keeps me balanced in my personal life. It is kind of like my philosophical side and my ministry side challenge one another so much that it keeps me from getting too completely absorbed in one over the other. This is especially important for ministers because there are so many horror stories out there about ministers whose ministry dictates their life. This can have a tremendously negative impact on families—and, in some cases, it breaks them apart.


From all of this you would probably get the impression that philosophy has only been successful for my ministry in teaching me to live a balanced life. I don’t think that is all it does for me. Initially, when I became a philosophy major in college, I did so thinking that this was going to help me defend the faith better. What it did at that time however was the reverse. I almost lost my faith! (that is another story). But by going through the initial pain of not being sure about my faith, philosophy helped ground my faith in the “true” God. Before, I think my faith was more in a certain impression or idea of God; and afterwards my faith was in what Paul Tillich called the “god above god,” that is, the true God who shows up when our false ideas of God fall apart.


The challenge that philosophy presented was like a fire that purified and forged my faith into a stronger reality. I don’t think that this is the purpose of philosophy—to help us have a better faith in God—but it is what happened to me. Incidentally, I think my whole education geared me for the challenges of ministry because it challenged my faith so much. This is why I can’t stand it when people say they can do ministry without college or seminary. My response is always: “Would you want a physician to work on you without a degree or education? Probably not. So why would you want a minister, who is entrusted with your soul, without one?” Faith needs to be challenged; we need more ministers willing to step out and let themselves be challenged in this way.
Chris: What's your favorite part about working with teenagers? What's the biggest challenge?

Caleb: What I love about teenagers is that they are more ready than most adults to entertain different ideas or ways of living. They are passionate and open. Everything they do and say is filled with such passion and openness that I often feel like my faith, in contrast, is too stolid. That they are passionate and open, however, is also my greatest challenge. For instance, their passion can be so great at times that other virtues—like prudence and patience—are smothered. And their openness can also get them into anything that looks, sounds and feels appealing.


My challenge, as their minister, is to redirect their passion and fill their openness with something authentic and truly good because if they are left on their own they can go off the deep end and drown. At the same time, I also have to be aware of myself and my own efforts to channel passion and fill the void in their lives. Not only can I get in way over my head, thinking that I can meet any challenge I am presented with, but I can easily manipulate their emotions and young minds with a false faith.


I see this in youth ministries all the time. Ministers and youth workers want the best for their students so much that they resort to emotional and intellectual manipulation to influence them. This is why so many youth groups and youth conferences are focused on giving kids this amazing “God-moment” and getting them to commit their lives to Christ. These motivations are not wrong in their own right, but the methods can manipulate teenagers so much that they end up with a faith in a god totally unlike the God of the Old and New Testaments. This is why the commitments made at most youth events rarely last that long; there is nothing to them but a consumerist distortion of God and faith. So this is my challenge: to fill the void and passion with something truly worthy without resorting to cheap and manipulative methods in doing so.


Chris: You, unlike me, are a big fan of the fantasy genre, if my memory serves me well. What is one fantasy book and one film everyone should read and watch? Why?

Caleb: Oh, I could give you a long list for this one! But if I had to narrow it down to one book and one movie I would suggest people read “The Game of Thrones (Song of Fire and Ice)” by George R.R. Martin and watch “Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring.”


The reason for the book suggestion is that Martin has the power to invoke imagination as well as challenge the way stories—not just fantasy—are told. His talent is that he can portray lives of fictional characters without falling into the trap of a flawless protagonist and a completely pernicious antagonist. Everyone in his story is flawed and somewhat morally compromised. Even if there are some characters that you fall in love and completely identify with—a natural part of reading any good story—Martin makes sure to keep you in check because not only will flaws be revealed but characters die mercilessly in this book. This can be a startling and depressing experience—I remember almost being sick to my stomach with sadness—but it is good for the soul nonetheless. In fact, if you can make it through reading his book, you can handle life, because in his books the story is rife with as many of the vicissitudes you will experience in your life.


The reason for the movie is quite simple: it is based on J.R.R. Tolkien’s books! Though it is not as good as the books—which, for all intents and purposes, created the Fantasy genre in fiction—the movie series captures the spirit and fun of his original story quite well. I picked the first movie because it begins in such humble, bucolic surroundings and ends with such a dark and challenging journey ahead that you cannot help but identify with it. Who doesn’t feel this in their own lives, especially as you mature in life and realize that the halcyon days of your youth have now turned into the challenge of work, marriage and family? “The Fellowship of the Rings” is also the perfect movie to identify with in the respect that one can see the challenge between good and evil, hope and destruction, life and death most clearly. Obviously, Tolkien wrote these books in the mist of WW1, and so much of that experience is presented within it. Its enduring value, however, is that these books/movies transcend any particular moment; they capture the difficulties and feelings of despair, the triumphs and happiness, that are part and parcel of any human life. This is why, the books, and even the movies, are classics. They are simply timeless!

Chris: You and I, through our blogs and verbally, do a bit of bickering back and forth, mostly as it relates to politics. The polarized discourse today is often not of respect and friendship across ideological divides. How are you able to both disagree and respect a person?

Caleb: It is not simple, that is for sure. Those who pretend it is have no idea what they are talking about. We all naturally gravitate to those most like us, for one reason or another—out of selfishness, perhaps.


I think the key is deference, a virtue which is little regarded in a society fixated on individualism and personal rights. Deference is saying to another person that “I can respect you not on the basis of your political positions but simply as another human being who has the same faults and inadequacies I do.”


The trouble is, most humans think politics should be discussed with hearing both sides. There are so many problems with that. Are there just two sides? Even if we grant that there are, one of them or both must be false, so why should I entertain another side if I think it is false? This is why the notion that we should hear both sides is bogus; it accomplishes nothing.


What is really productive is not the ability to hear both sides but to defer to another person. This is not saying, “ you are right, so I will go with you,” nor is it saying, “to hell with it, let’s just do it so we can get along with one another.” What it is saying is, “I can’t trust myself to make all the decisions, or to know everything that needs to be known, therefore, I naturally listen and work with others different from myself, not because I agree with them, but because I have no choice but to do so.”


I think deference is difficult for most Americans for a variety of reasons. The main reason is because we have been taught that each person individually should have a say in any given matter. That will just cause confusion! (And indeed it does!) Deference teaches us that we don’t have a right to handle any situation or problem on our own. Such a right is an illusion. Rather what we have is an obligation to work together because it is as a collective body that we are most successful. Now, this is not saying, “Just hand it over to the experts” or “Congress will sort things out in the end.” We all know that experts fail, and we certainly know Congress fails (more often than not). Deference is saying that we are not equipped by ourselves as individuals to handle problems. It is saying, in effect, that our natural modus operandi (mode of operation) should always begin with “how can I work together with everyone” instead of “I have got it right, or my politically party is right, so everyone else should fall in line.”


I firmly believe that it is because of our commitment to deference that you and I are able to talk about these issues without disrespecting one another.

Chris: Your blog is called Facing the Facade. What facade are you trying to face?

Caleb: Very simply: myself. What I have learned in life is that no one deceives me as much as I do myself. Whether it is in my intellectual, spiritual, or athletic abilities, I deceive myself on a regular basis. How I deceive myself varies but in general it has to do with the fact that I build up an image of myself that has no basis in who I am, especially as a follower of Christ. My frustration is that these images always shatter when I am not able to live up to the idea I have of myself. This is why “facing the façade” is a spiritual exercise in learning to discover myself as I am and not as I wish myself to be. It is a humbling process but one that is essential to a healthy spiritual life.

Chris: Thanks, Caleb!